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Monkeying around with water heating controls
While watching the winter Olympics I saw the great ad for the new GE GeoSpring hybrid water heater. If you missed the ad with the snow monkeys chilling out in the heated water it can be seen here. The new GE hybrid water heater is called a hybrid because it is a combination of an electric water heater and an air-source heat pump.
GE describes how the unit works in the GeoSpring Hybrid water heater features:
A compressor and evaporator are integrated into the electric water heater unit and the evaporator draws in ambient heat from surrounding air using two variable speed fans. Condenser coils wrap the tank all the way to the bottom to transfer this heat into the tank and heat the water.
This innovative process creates the same amount of hot water as a traditional electric water heater, but can reduce water heating expenses up to 62% to save $320* per year. And that could have a dramatic impact on monthly utility bills for years to come!
On the link describing the water heater’s ability to save energy GE states: “Cut water heating energy usage by up to 62%”. It seems that they arrive at this number by comparing the Energy Factor (EF) of their hybrid heater (2.35) to that of a standard electric water heater (.88). Energy Factor is defined by the DOE as:
The energy factor (EF) indicates a water heater’s overall energy efficiency based on the amount of hot water produced per unit of fuel consumed over a typical day
I have no doubts that the hybrid water heater from GE is more efficient than a standard electrical water heater (the electric water heating energy cost calculator GE puts up on their site helps), but what about compared to heating with another water heating method which is natural gas? To compare this you would need to compare the EF of a natural gas water heater to the GE hybrid heater while also taking into account the cost difference between what you pay for natural gas vs. electricity…which will mean you will probably have to do a conversion between therms (the units usually used to express natural gas consumption) and kWh (electric consumption). It obviously gets a little complicated when comparing different methods of heating water! This page from the California Energy Commission (CEC) is a great resource for comparing water heating methods.
The CEC estimates that heating with natural gas will cost users 1/3 the cost of heating with a standard electric heater…but if the GE hybrid heater is 3 times more efficient than a standard electric water heater then a natural gas heater and a hybrid water heater from GE would cost users the same amount to operate! ***this obviously depends on the rate you pay for natural gas and electricity
One of the Mapawatt team members has an electric hybrid water heater that is even more efficient than GE’s; but only because his hybrid water heater is electric and solar thermal.
If you’re interested in buying the new GE heater, the good news is that you are probably eligible for an energy star appliance rebate! Using their online water heater store I determined that the GeoSpring has a list price of $1,699, but this doesn’t include any installation costs. Here’s my advice if you are in the market for a water heater:
- If you definitely need a new water heater and you heat with electric, then the GeoSpring seems like a great choice. Do some more research, install one, and tell us how it works!
- If you already have an efficient electric water heater than you will have to compare the initial purchase price (minus rebates) vs. your annual energy savings. Yes, this requires a little more work on your part but you will be smarter afterward.
- If you heat with natural gas chances are it may be hard to justify the higher initial purchase price of the GE water heater. Do the analysis though and don’t be afraid to ask for help in the comments below if you need it!
- If you want to live off-grid then you can’t use this water heater anyway (unless you had solar PV or a wind turbine and wanted to use that electricity for a water heater?). Just install a solar thermal water heating system and take cold showers when it is raining outside
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Just as an FYI, it looks like the cheapest retailer for this unit is Sears @ $1,599.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_04232100000P?keyword=water+heater
Lowe’s also has it for $1,599 and their warranties are a lower price.
Home Depot also sells a model made by Rheem for $1498.00 with a better warranty
Is the Rheem model a hybrid water heater? What is the model number on that?
I looked at both units and chose the GE because of its better energy efficiency, slick electronic interface, and easier installation. It has a vacation mode too, that is pretty cool and can save additional $$.
i am in the process of buying one of these, one question i have though is how loud is it, in heat pump mode. it will be installed in a storage room next to our master bed room. do you think it will be a nuisance? would appreciate your comments. and but the way loews has an extra 10 percent of the 1595, and my stepson works there for another 10, plus the state rebate of $425. so now is the time to buy. guess i could build some kind of sound deadner around it for that. thanks , tracy
I just bought one and it is comparable to a computer fan sound. Mine is is my garage and I can tell when its running, but can’t hear it in the house. Seems like it is a multi speed fan so it is not always running at high speed. Check out the space requirements on the ge site, the is a minimum room size that you need, or the room needs to be vented (so that it doesn’t get too cool in that room). Sears has it on sale for 1439, this week only. They didn’t offer credit terms, but I went to a local appliance store (Metro Builder supply) and they matched the price and gave me 12 mo. no interest.
Yes…the Rheem is a hybrid (heat pump & traditional electric). Model number is HP50ES
You’re right, the Rheem unit is pretty neat:
http://www.rheem.com/Products/tank_water_heaters/hpwh/hpwhhomeowner/
You should compare apples to apples. All gas hot water applications are NOT the same efficiency. A modern on demand no pilot models are VERY effective, and old 40-60 poorly insulated tank with the burner at the bottom and a heat/cold exchanger tube thru and out the top are VERY inefficient.
anybody out there have real world experience with the Rheem or GE?
Know of a good head to head comparison?
alzane2000@yahoo.com
I just installed two GE units. One in the attic and one in the utility room. The utility room has a small room where the old heater was located, 30″ x 30″, so I installed a louvered door so the air could flow. The attic location is great, it helps keep the attic cooler. The install was simple on the lower level, but did not even come close to being fun on the attic install (100 lb straight up). Operation is not quite, but is tolerable. There are three fans, I think, running when operating. Two for the intake and one for the exhaust (cold air). I operate the attic unit in hybrid mode and the in-house unit in e-mode (only heat pump). Have not seen the first electric bill so the jury is out on money savings. I am hoping for real savings since the two units I pulled out pegged the “uses the most energy” on the cost label. FYI, the in-house unit was a monster 87gal money grabbing machine.
Michael, let us know when you get a utility bill with the two units. I’d be interested to see how they perform!
Well the 1st post install bill came and compared to the same period last year, it is $20 less. Now, we live in middle GA and it is a whole lot hotter this year than it was at the same time last year. In fact, not even sure we had the AC on last year at this time. That said, I am happy with the prelim results. We will have to see what happens next month.
I’ve been researching water heaters quite a bit and have some questions and some thoughts.
1. Are the REEM and the GeoSpring water heater the same? (I think they are, but why the different name).
2. From an environmental perspective, is the Marathon heater better (I think no, but am not sure why all the uber-green people get the Marathon then)?
3. If the GeoSpring uses a heat pump, it takes heat out of the existing air, right? Then are your energy savings from this process offset by loses from taking heat out of your house?
4. How often does GE come out with new products? Should I wait for a version with a quieter fan?
I few thoughts.
1. I’ve looked into getting a solar water heater, and this, I think, is a much better deal. The three bids I’ve received for solar water heater all put it around $10,000 to $12,000 with a $300 annual savings in water heating cost. This would provide the same thing for a fraction of the cost.
2. If you want to live off the grid (which is an eventual goal of mine), I think the best thing to do is to buy this heater and use photovoltaics for the heating elements. I’ve never seen any discussion of how this system compares to a traditional solar water system, but the numbers seem to work out. Any thoughts?
All excellent questions and points. I’ll have to do some research but it’s an interesting question: Which is better, solar thermal or hybrid water heater?
I wanted to go solar myself but the cost of the unit as well as the install was a bit much. The energy factor, according to the manufacturers, are at least 3.0 (min) for solar and 2.33 for the GE unit. The old heater rated a .82. My return on investment should be 3-4 yrs. The return on investment for the solar unit was going to be 14 yrs. As I said, I would have rather had the cells on the roof, but it was not worth the cost nor the install issues. The old water heater came out and the GE unit went in. No issues what so ever. The question you need to ask yourself is what is it worth to you. Going all out green and ignore the costs or go green in an economic and sensible manner.
I currently have a leaking gas water heater and need to replace it. Is the Eternal Hybrid by Grand Hall a good alternative? Also, I can’t seem to find if it’s Energy Star Certified so don’t know if it qualifies for the federal tax credit. I wouls like to stay with gas for 2 reasons A)Can’t afford to retrofit for electric; B) When the power goes out, (which it can during summers of thunderstorms), at least I will still have hot water. Please let me know what you think of this alternative. I’ve seen mixed reviews on regular gas tankkless water heaters. Thx!
Julie,
Thanks for your comment. I moved this question over to our forum. Please see my response on replacing a standard water heater with a hybrid water heater.